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Life of HSDH Shri Mahant Swami Maharaj
Spiritual Discourses by HSDH Shri Mahant Swami Maharaj
Articles written by Shri Mahant Swami Maharaj
Words that will change your life !
Interviews of HSDH Shri Mahant Swami Maharaj
Rare photographs of HSDH Shri Mahant Swami Maharaj
An interview with Swamishree by author Peter Brent for his popular book Godmen of India* ( Subject : Guru - Shishya Relationship )























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(
Continued)

“Four years passed between my first and my second invitation. I thought to myself, 
‘I am educated. I know much more than my colleagues. Why does Swamiji delay to give this to me? Many others are there who come from villages. They never knew anything, but still, they were given this directly. Earlier, I never got an answer to this question and I had not even asked Guruji because you see, I thought that this question should not be asked. But now I know that he has done a great thing to me. If he had given me this earlier, three would have been downfall. That ego would have come out of me and I would have thought myself this and that, and that would have destroyed me. But during those whole years, you see – I should not say it – I was treated in such a way that any other person would have run away.

“I give you one example. One day Swamiji served us a lot of food. The previous day had been a fast. I had fasted. The next I should have been served with light food, but actually it was heavy food with sweets and all; immediately afterwards he told me to go to the station. Some person told Swamiji, ‘ Don’t send him to the station. We will do it.’
So Swamiji said, "No".
 
“Swamiji was still saying, ‘ No, he should be sent.’ I had no shoes; they were broken, you see. ‘You should go without shoes…’ So I did that also. And he had told me to take a big vessel full of water, cold water. I had to serve a Swamiji who was to pass by through that station. And it three miles away from this place. And Swamiji had told me, ‘Whatever remains, bring back; don’t throw it out.’ I was with another person but that person, on the contrary… he danced around, he did not help me, he danced around and teased me. 

“I said, “What is Swamiji doing? I don’t understand him, why should I be treated like this? But after all that, you see, when I came back, Swamiji patted me and all that anger… it diffused. Otherwise great anger had aroused in me and I would have done something. But then he came and he did this so nicely. And that told me that he knew everything.”

“When the time came for my second Diksha, it was planned. There was a big occasion at Madras; in the pinnacle of the temple, by the golden vessel – it took place there. Fifty went up there to initiated during this ceremony.”

“As to the discipline here – Swamiji had actually has ordered us to rise at 4 o’clock in the morning. That we don’t do. (He laughs). It is very hard and once I read in Readers Digest that ‘practice makes a man perfect’, but now getting up early that has struck me. In some way it has drawn me back. (He laughs). These things, which come from an artist, are caught up quickly, rather than the order given by Guru. We know that if we obey Him we will achieve, but it is hard.”

“After four we take our bath, cleaning our mouth and all that, and then we perform Pooja which is give by our Guru. There is some mantra, which we have to chant, whereby God or Guru comes in our presence. Then we give Him bath, mentally, and we serve Him with food and all this; then all that is completed. And then we chant the mantra whereby He is to go away. Like that we hold our Pooja. Then some go for the studies. After Pooja, there is sometime, about half an hour; during that we do scripture reading and interpretation. After that, at six o’clock there is aarti; that is, bearing of lights before God, in the mass. After that we are free, in the sense that everybody will do their personal things that is, some go for their studies, some go to do their service, to cook or to clean and all that. And after that, at seven-thirty, we take our breakfast and after that, at eight o’clock there is scripture reading again and everyone should attend this.

“The teaching is done by me. And I talk to them. Or even Mr. Dave, he’s there to teach us because he has developed great interest in us in this fold, and he has experienced so many things he can guide us nicely. There are others also; teaching is not only the monopoly of the saffron clothes. Swamiji says that whoever is fit for it can do this work. Even a small child could teach if he is fit. This teaching is only to saints and men; to ladies it is not asked us. But if they want to hear, it is done in such a way that we are not conscious of it.

“After that we go off again, some for cooking, some for study and all that. At noon we take lunch, there also we put this food before God and we chant some hymns before we eat and after that it is taken to be his prasad – graced by God – and then it is offered to all the disciples and not before that. We cannot put it in our mouths. After that, scripture reading is done for everybody. This daily reading is chosen by me, but the Sunday meeting is the special one and that is picked by Swamiji.

“After that the cleaning of vessels is done, this is not laid on one person there is a rota and every fifteen days it is changed. After fifteen days another person comes and that way everyone has a chance; whether he likes or not, he has to do it. 

“That goes up till two o’ clock or two thirty. Then we take some rest because we have to get up early. Actually we should not take sleep in the afternoon, but we do it and Swamiji allows it. Because if he is too strict then we may break out.

“Then again at three thirty worship takes place, and again we do our reading. Many times there are meetings, we go to centers to teach and some meetings are held here. And then again at seven there is aarti. That aarti is as it was at 6 o’clock in the morning. Actually that is not a fixed time; the morning one is fixed, but this is according to the sunset; when it is dark, then we should do it.

“After that hymns are again chanted and there will be scripture reading and at that time many come, other devotees besides our saints, because at that time they are free from their office and all that. And they also get time to hear us.

“Then again we take food, although many don’t take food in the evening.”
There are a few small saints, they take food, and others who are depressed and of that sort, they do. Actually we are supposed to eat only once, and that also in wooden bowl. We have to mix everything in cold water and then we take it in that way. That is, we should not have taste of anything in particular. One taste, whether it is tasty or tasteless, is sufficient. That is what we actually have to do; but in that also, you see, we cheat ourselves. We do according to our capacity, we are all trying to please him, but still it is very difficult, but still, according to me, I can say that we are far better off because we are sincere that is one thing. Whether we are able to or not the sincerity is there and that is the great thing.”

“And then at ten-thirty, the cleaning of vessels; when all have finished all get together.
If Swamiji has written letters or something has to be read, something about the sect or something has to be told us, it is done at night at about ten. From ten to eleven-thirty there are again recitals to be done by everyone, all the devotees throughout this fold, whether they are saints or not. And that recital is to be said by everyone then we go to sleep. Some continue study until twelve or one, according to their need.” 

“Until we really know the fitness of Guru, our surrender to him is partial. Even if we think that w have surrendered ourselves actually we have not done it. We think that we have surrendered completely, but actually we have not. So you see both things go side by side. We think that Guru is perfect and we think that our surrender is also complete;
but Guru is not perfect and your surrender also is not complete, so it works. But surrender goes on; there is no end to it. Lord Swaminarayan has said that once someone asked him, “Lord! Show us one way, by which you will be pleased with us, rather than our having to perform infinite ting to please you.” So Lord Swaminarayan said, “complete surrender.” So how great is this thing surrender? We actually don’t know its value. You see only when you know Him completely, can you surrender completely. But you don’t know yourself so how can you surrender completely?”

“And how to know ourselves- that it is done by Swamiji, you see. Actually when we come to him we don’t know anything but Swamiji orders us to do something. And when we do that thing we get some light. Here is one incident. Once when I was with Swamiji he had told us to learn something by heart. We all went in one corner and started learning that passage by heart. Suddenly Swamiji began speaking. We all ran to him. Swamiji asked us, “Why have you come?” 

“We told Swamiji, “Because you are speaking, if it was another person we would not have come but because you are speaking we have to hear you in order that when someone asks us questions we will know the answers.”

“Swamiji said, ”Go back and do what I have told you. That fountain of knowledge will come from within your heart if you obey me, but even if you come to me and hear me and not anyone else, nothing will happen. But when you obey me, only then it happens.” You see, we have experienced that one saint who is here, he does not attend any lectures or scripture readings or anything of that sort- he is always busy in his cooking department. He has taken that up completely. But still, when you hear him you ask, “How did this come to him, which we have learned after hearing, experiencing and all that; just by cooking he has learned all this things?”

“Because of the things that have happened, we have stuck to him. You may be given the answer perfectly, but still, to believe it is different. Swamiji has done that to us with his grace. But still, we don’t give this explanation outside. The reason is, it is very hard to convince people. At the same time, if they are not convinced and they take up with this thing and then they leave it half way, then they will interpret these things wrongly. They will say that there is nothing, it is all humbug so it is better not not explain. A person like you who comes here. It is very hard to give an explanation; there is writing and thinking - but that is not experiencing.”

“Later, I eat with them they crowd cheerfully round me as I mix the rather good vegetable curry and the rice, chew the raw vegetables and with plantains. We eat in a bare room with a tiled floor. “The ‘saints’ as they call themselves in English, sit in two rows, facing each other, cross legged on rush mats. They stir their food together busily and water it as if genuinely afraid of being seduced in someway by its undiluted taste. To the right, through low, open windows, I can see a balcony and the whole world beyond, noisy, contumacious, sensual. In here there is only low conversation and soft gonging of metal vessels. On the wall hangs a framed photograph of the benevolent, garlanded figure of the Guru pinned by the camera at some movement of appetite as he too bends over a simple bowl. But the young sadhus crowding round me laugh watch me eagerly then push each other away to give me room and privacy more like a school than a monastery (and indeed this is in some sense a school a center for the sect’s young aspirants, in which they learn Sanskrit, philosophy, and a number of another subjects).

Silently, Swami Keshavjivandasji leads me to the door. I watch him intently as if he has secrets I can unravel. I think of him as a man who will be formidable if he survives. Around him, these young sadhus disport themselves like children; the older ones stand by; they smile, they let this or that happen. Only he is intense, burning within - obsessed by something - it is vocation, or the terror of failing it? Yet perhaps I dramatized and romanticized him; He speaks of other people’s failings, failures total defeats, as if they had no connection with him; he feels himself secure. And all the same I look at him and wonder - every now and then, that trembling passes across his lips, swift as a humming birds wing, a nothing that goes as quickly as it comes leaving no more trace than shadow of a cloud passing over a landscape.

At the door, at the head of the two or three steps that lead down into the narrow yard, he says - his shy farewells I retrieve my chappals walk down the yard and out under the stone archway. I look back. The younger sadhu is still at the door, watching my departure. As I turn, he jerks around and scuttles out of sight.

Previous part of this interview

Courtesy : Penguin Books, Peter Brent ( Author of Godmen of India )
*
( Godmen of India p. 212 - 223 )

 

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